Fight Preview
Coach Conversation | Alexandre Pantoja vs Joshua Van
New England Cartel Leader Tyson Chartier Dissects Saturday’s Flyweight Title Fight At UFC 323: Dvalishvili vs Yan 2
Championship fights are layered battles with the competitors stepping into the Octagon operating at the highest level in their respective weight classes. Breaking down how these pivotal contests could possibly play out is a challenging venture, which is why UFC staff writer E. Spencer Kyte has taken to enlisting the help of some of the sharpest minds in the sport to help dissect these critical contests.
With Alexandre Pantoja set to defend the flyweight title against surging challenger Joshua Van, Kyte sat down with Tyson Chartier, head coach of the New England Cartel, to discuss this weekend’s fascinating UFC 323 co-main event.
Best Trait of Each Fighter
Kyte: This is a really interesting fight and I’m looking forward to breaking it down with you, so let’s get started: what are the best traits of Alexandre Pantoja and Joshua Van?
Chartier: I think from a skill or weapon perspective with Pantoja, it’s obviously his jiu jitsu, but at this point, I think you can also say that it’s his composure and experience in the big moments that are his best traits.
I think he’s at that—where he’s going for his fifth consecutive successful title defense, and the experience in those moments, against the top guys is an invaluable trait.
Full Fight | Alexandre Pantoja vs Kai Kara-France 2
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Full Fight | Alexandre Pantoja vs Kai Kara-France 2
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Kyte: Yeah, he looks so much different, especially in these last two title defenses, than he did in the title fight against Brandon Moreno and the defense against Steve Erceg.
He has the mindset of “I’m better than these guys and I’m just gonna handle business.” I think he’s grown into fighting twice a year, being extremely well prepared, and focused on dominating, rather than making it exciting, looking to brawl. I think you’re spot-on with this and it’s a trait that more athletes in general need to adopt.
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We talked about it with Valentina Shevchenko last event — all she cares about is getting the win and putting another ruby on her belt, and at the end of the day, it works.
Chartier: And then for Joshua Van, it’s gonna sound weird to say for a guy that isn’t all that experienced — and obviously his boxing is his best skill — but I would say one of the best traits is his confidence. I don’t think he’s going into these fights and allowing the moment to overwhelm him, and for someone that is only 24 years old, that really stands out to me.
Kyte: So I’ve talked to him throughout this year, including ahead of this fight, and basically said to him, “This isn’t supposed to be this easy and you’re supposed to be a little nervous or anxious, and it’s understandable if you’re a little overwhelmed,” but he’s just not.
You’re dead right with this. He’s just completely unbothered by it and he’s just really good at locking in on the task and not the narrative pieces of these fights. We’ll see this week because this is bigger than anything he’s dealt with before, but he’s just not taken by this stuff at all.
Path to Victory
Kyte: What the path to victory for each guy here?
Chartier: I think for Pantoja, he’s gotta try to get it to the ground; that’s the path of least resistance. He’s a back-take specialist and if he gets to your back, there is a good chance he’s gonna get a finish.
Conversely, for Van, he’s gotta keep it on the feet, establish control early, and use that quiet, calculated pressure. I don’t think he can be as passive as he is in some of his fights early on. He’s usually a slow starter in a 3-round fight, and I could understand with this being a 5-round fight if you think the first can be a “download” road, but against a guy like Pantoja, you can’t do that.
I think he’d be wise to get on him early, control where things are taking place and winning the first round.
Kyte: So, with a guy like Pantoja that has a little of that “you can draw him into a brawl” streak in him, and that counteracts his best path to victory, how do you work to that? How do you try to draw that out of him and attack his ego in that way?
Because last time, he took Kai (Kara-France) down in under 30 seconds and it was just instantly his fight. It immediately mutes some of what Kai wants to do because he’s on the ground right away and for most of the first round, which then makes you a little hesitant, and that made Pantoja feel okay to stand with him for the whole second round.
So, if you’re Joshua Van, how do you try to draw the brawl out of him?
Full Fight | Joshua Van vs Brandon Royval
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Full Fight | Joshua Van vs Brandon Royval
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Chartier: I don’t think you can stop Pantoja from coming out and trying to get a takedown, other than specifically working on those defensive elements and doing your best not to get taken down. What I do think is that every time you land a shot, every time you stuff a takedown, play to the crowd a little bit, get in his head a little bit.
Play with that gamesmanship a little.
Kyte: Right. If you can stop those early ones, let him know about it; give him the old Nate Diaz, Dustin Poirier “I got you” point.
Chartier: Yeah, give him a little “not today” and see how he reacts.
Kyte: It’s also just part and parcel with what you said, correctly, about his path to victory: he’s gotta be the one to come out and lead the dance, force him backwards, use all the weapons, use the speed.
I think Pantoja has bigger single-shot power, but Van is really accurate, mixes things up well, and the best way to neutralize what Pantoja wants to do is follow what you laid out for how he wins: make him go backwards, make him deal with your offense, fight on your terms.
Chartier: You can’t just think about defending takedowns; you have to win the exchanges. I think added to that idea of going forward and getting into your offense, you have to be selective with your weapons too.
Order UFC 323: Dvalishvili vs Yan 2
When you’re fighting a guy that wants to take you down, you’re not throwing big overhand rights, lazy high kicks, leaping hooks; you have to throw straight shots, jabs to the body, teep kicks up the middle, that oblique kick that he likes is really good at messing guys up as they come in.
It’s gonna be stuff where if you throw it, they’re not shooting underneath it; you’re still catching them.
Kyte: I think both of the title fights are fairly similar in their construction in terms of what the champions want to do, what the challengers are best at, and what they need to do in order to dictate things.
Now we just have to see who can do it.
X Factor
Kyte: What’s the x-factor in this one for you?
Chartier: I have two things.
The generic one is how does Van do in a 5-round fight? We’ve never seen him there. A lot of times we get these guys challenging for titles and they’ve been main events, co-main events, been on the poster. There is the publicity side of it that we’ve already address, but in the fight itself, how does he look in the fourth and fifth round?
Kyte: The most we’ve seen is him going into the third, tied 1-1, and pulling it out.
Chartier: The other thing is I want to see how his second-line defense is off his back. He’s been very good if he gets taken down, his first move kind of works; he explodes, he’s athletic, and he gets back to his feet. But how does he react when someone like Pantoja defends those first, second attempts to get up and he gets stuck in a bad spot?
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Does he do what a lot of young guys do and give up their backs because you get so frustrated that your defense goes out the window, you take a risk, and next thing you know, you’re getting caught. I’m really interested to see how he reacts when he’s forced to use those second- and third-line defenses off his back.
Kyte: What’s the best approach, in your estimation, for that? His first response has always been “I can athlete my way up,” and it’s often worked or been enough.
But what does he need to do if that doesn’t work? Do you just defend and accept that you’re stuck, make sure to not get caught?
Chartier: Obviously it’s all situational, but from a camp standpoint, you’re bringing in specialists, and his coach, Daniel Pineda, is pretty good on the back. You’re putting him in bad spots the whole camp, putting him in with specialists the whole camp, getting him tired and seeing how he reacts.
You’ve got to have good frames and trying to keep everything in front of you. You’ve gotta resist the urge to turtle, and whatever plan they come up with, you’re repping that out all camp, so that it’s second nature, against guys that are great in that position like Pantoja is.
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The other part is situationally, maybe you do ride out a round and take the “L” for that round rather than taking a risk and getting choked out. Better to go into the fifth 2-2 than trying something and getting tapped in the fourth. That’s a game-time decision they’re gonna have to think about.
In a perfect world, all your get-ups involve framing, keeping everything in front of you, not giving up your back. It’ll be interesting to see how he deals with that.
UFC 323 Countdown | Alexandre Pantoja vs Joshua Van
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UFC 323 Countdown | Alexandre Pantoja vs Joshua Van
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Kyte: On the other side, Pantoja is terrific on the ground, “Parrumpa” (his coach, Marcos Da Matta) is a terrific coach, so are you looking to exploit that Van is young, that the first response is always to be an athlete, and try to bait him into some of those “wrong choice” mistakes?
Chartier: If you look at Cody Durden, who fights out of ATT (American Top Team), he came out, a lot of kicks, pressure, takedown defense, and he had success with it, so you’ve gotta think that’s what they’re gonna do again. Cody probably won the first round.
I think one of the mistakes people make in fighting Van is that they try to rush to get to positions and then he’s able to get up. I think you’ve gotta be okay with maintaining position and allowing him to make a mistake that allows you to advance, rather than forcing it.
Kyte: Because when you give him enough space, he’s able to athlete his way up.
Chartier: Be strong on top and react to what he does; don’t force anything.
One Coaching Curiosity
Kyte: What’s are the curiosity points for you in this one?
Chartier: I’m really interested to see Pantoja’s approach, because no one has been able to take Van down in the open mat, so does he totally stay away from shooting in the open mat and just push him to the fence to take him down?
I’m really interested to see if he’s willing to wrestle out in the open. No one has had success there, so I’m interested in that. And then we also talked about the 5-round thing and the big moments, but I do want to see how that plays out too.
Kyte: I wanna see how Pantoja deals with it being a 24-year-old challenger that hasn’t really been in the mix and wasn’t really on his radar until June.
We talk about it all the time, but it only takes one time where you’re over-confident, too sure of your success, too sure of your abilities that something goes wrong, and I’m always curious about it, especially in fights like this.
He knew what he was up against in Kai Kara-France — they had fought before — and there was an edge to him going into the Kai Asakura fight. This is a kid that just kind of turned up on your radar late, kind of like Steve Erceg, who was the last guy that wasn’t really expected to be that much of a threat, and we saw how that played out.
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Now, he’s had that experience and he’s looked outstanding since then, but it only takes one time for it to happen where it costs you, and at what point does one of these ones catch you?
Chartier: I feel like he’s been improving as a champion; he’s been more locked in.
Kyte: The last two fights he has been absolutely lights out; insanely good.
Chartier: I’m expecting to see that. I feel like this has to put a chip on his shoulder, that they’re bringing in this 24-year-old that wasn’t really on anyone’s radar, who had a good — it was a good performance against Royval, but it wasn’t like he dominated or anything.
Kyte: He won it down the stretch of the third.
Chartier: And I don’t think Royval fought particularly well that night; he probably underrated him a little bit. So, I feel like Pantoja is probably gonna look at that Royval fight and say, “I’m gonna show this kid there are levels to this.”
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Kyte: He absolutely has to, and I would guess that there is a little piece where he knows that every successful title defense brings him closer to being the best flyweight in UFC history. I love DJ (Demetrious Johnson), and he’s got the record for most consecutive successful title defenses in UFC history, and you can only beat the guys they put in front of you, but Pantoja’s strength of schedule is starting to get him closer, even if it’s not nearly as many title defenses.
Chartier: Right.
Kyte: And I think we all have a little recency bias with this stuff, but that’s where we’re at with this conversation, and it’s surely a motivational piece for Pantoja.
Chartier: For sure.
Kyte: It’s gonna be fun.
Chartier: I’m excited for this card.
Kyte: It’s an outstanding card, and this fight is gonna be amazing.
Chartier: Agreed.
UFC 323: Dvalishvili vs Yan 2 took place live from T-Mobile Arena in Las Vegas, Nevada on December 6, 2025. See the final Prelim & Main Card Results, Official Scorecards and Who Won Bonuses - and relive the action on UFC FIGHT PASS!