Coach Conversation | Virna Jandiroba vs Mackenzie Dern 2

Mackenzie’s jiu-jitsu is amazing, but so is Virna’s. Virna is good and that’s not me telling you — that’s Bia Mesquita telling me. Bia competed against both of them and she said, “Virna didn’t have any money to go to the big tournaments, but every tournament that has money involved, she wanted the money because she needed the money, and she was always very hard to beat.”

I think she only competed as a purple and brown belt once, but Bia said she’s really good, and she’s been proving that. Look at what she did to (Yan) Xiaonan, who drew with Mackenzie. (Note: it was a majority decision win for Dern)

Kyte: It feels like the thing they’re both best at is their grappling — 100 percent, no question — and they have similar grappling approaches. I would say Virna is a little bit better wrestler, a little better getting into the clinch, getting to where she wants to be in terms of trying to get you down, whereas Dern is going to throw punches and hope she can tie up and pull guard.

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DaMatta: She’ll try some takedowns, but she’ll only try takedowns if she’s losing on the feet. I see this very even because Virna is not a great striker either. Mackenzie has more power, but Virna is more technical, so it evens out.

I coached two times against Mackenzie and one time against Virna. The wins I had were with Amanda Ribas, so when I studied both of them, they’re very similar. Virna actually won one round against Ribas, which was the first round, where she took Amanda down and controlled her; the second and third round, she couldn’t take her down because we adjusted between rounds because Amanda was a little bit better standing.

So I think Dern has more options. Would you agree?

DaMatta: Yeah, I agree with you — Mackenzie had two options, and Virna just has one.

I think Virna can control three of the five on top, maybe get to the back, control; I don’t think she’s gonna finish.

Kyte: Get to good spots, control things, make Mackenzie be defensive, burn out the clock.

FULL FIGHTS: Dern vs Ribas 2 | Jandiroba vs Yan

DaMatta: If Mackenzie turns it into a dogfight, keeps it standing — which she likes — I think she also the ability to win three outta five, and also maybe one punch connects and she gets on top; she win rounds by doing that also. Even though I see it dead even, I agree with you that Mackenzie has one more option.

Kyte: Power is a great deciding factor; it changes things.

DaMatta: Yeah, power changes everything.

Kyte: Mackenzie has some, and she has the mindset of “I’m happy to go in there and let this get a little messy,” which to me has been the biggest evolution of her game is that she’s happy and okay being in hard fights, dirty fights, messy fights. I don’t think she was initially, but she is now and it’s made her a better fighter.

That to me is what ties into the power: how does Virna respond to Mackenzie looking to land it, and can that change the dynamics of the fight?

DaMatta: Complimenting what you said: wrestling is hard, and if you don’t have a setup, it’s even worse.

GSP was not the best wrestler in the division, but he took everybody down because his timing was perfect. Gleison Tibau, the second-best double-leg in the game and he had horrible striking, but he knew how to set it up; timing was great.

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It’s the same thing for Mackenzie: if she can connect those hands and change levels, she doesn’t need to be a great wrestler to take Virna down. And the other way around, same thing: if Virna lands a kick, fakes a kick, throws a jab and Mackenzie brings both hands up, there is no sprawl there; the hands are up, and you get into the hips.

You have to use your hands and striking to setup a takedown because nowadays, it’s just such a complete game.