Coach Conversation | UFC Freedom 250: Ilia Topuria vs Justin Gaethje

Ahead of this weekend’s lightweight title unification bout between Ilia Topuria and Justin Gaethje, Kyte sat down with Tyson Chartier of the New England Cartel to discuss how things could play out in the finale to UFC Freedom 250.

Best Trait of Each Fighter

Kyte: Okay — so what’s the best trait of Ilia Topuria and what’s the best trait of Justin Gaethje?

Chartier: For Gaethje, you have to say that it’s his pressure and his striking, especially his calf kicks, and his durability too. I know he’s been finished, but his ability to handle and manage damage are impressive because he gets into these wars where other guys might not survive, but he figures out a way to endure and often win. That to me is the epitome of durability, not necessarily that you can take a beating and you’re hard to knock out. It’s that he can get in these wars, get in these spots where he’s almost finished, but still stay in the fight and turn the momentum of the fight.

Chartier: Right.

Kyte: So the one thing I will argue with or push back against a little is that I don’t think he has unprecedented power — I think what you said first is the big thing: his ability to find shots, pick shots, mix targets really well — we’ve seen him use different weapons, different hands, different targets — and it sounds weird to say, but I think he might have the most complete overall game of anybody. (Islam) Makhachev is maybe the only one that is in the mix with him to me.

The shot selection, the patience combined with the shot selection, power, finishing instincts — he has a good gas tank and he makes stuff happen better than anyone I can think of right now between the way he walks you down, gets you where he wants you, picks the right shots to hurt you and then he picks the right shots to finish you.

Chartier: I love watching him fight. On top of what you said, it’s how confident he is too. Very rarely do you see a fighter that is a high-level black belt, high-level wrestler, high-level striking, knocking everybody out, fighting in the biggest fights and he’s so confident.

Kyte: He’s completely unbothered.

Chartier: They say that Chuck Liddell was like that — just didn’t get nervous — but at times, Liddell did get emotional. I don’t see that with Topuria and that’s a weapon. To be able to stay composed that against these guys, in these big fights, with all the talking and all that — he’s so well-rounded physically and so intelligent mentally and has the confidence to back it up.

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Kyte: There is an element of that that comes from the fact that he’s never lost — there is nothing that forces you to question your own self-belief. People will say, ‘It’s cocky that he resets his record on his social media accounts the night before these fights,’ and yeah, it is a little brazen, a little brash, but I don’t know — he’s backed it up and if you don’t want him to do it, stop him.

Kyte: He drew Paddy (Pimblett) into a fight on the feet and then didn’t just go bonkers about it; he still picked his spots and goes about 80-percent of how he used to fight and he’s really good in that spot, but this one feels really tricky.

Chartier: It’s almost like we need the old Justin back for this one.

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Path to Victory

Kyte: I mean, that feels like a good segue to discussing the path to victory for each guy.

Chartier: I think Gaethje has to do his best to drag Topuria into a war and he’s got to damage the legs. I don’t think he can just box with him — I think you have to go back to old faithful and damage the legs, compromise Topuria and get him thinking about a deficiency. If he can land the calf kick, Topuria is a little wounded and once he hurts your calf, he goes upstairs really well. I think we need to see the old Gaethje in this fight because like we talked about earlier, if you go out and try to be technical with this guy, he’s just so sharp, so fast, so smart that I don’t think that’s the right way to do it. I think you have to drag him into a war, damage the legs, and make it ugly.

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Kyte: One hundred percent. You’ve got to go out straight away and start banging those kicks; slamming them home every chance you get and stay at it. Keep the guard high, keep yourself protected, and lean on that resiliency a little if you have to, because he’s got it. He’s been finished a couple times, but it was Max at the last second, (Dustin) Poirier in Round 4 and Eddie (Alvarez) in Round 3 of a brawl, and those last two were pre-smartening up. Trust that toughness, trust that durable because you have to take it to him. You have to be the aggressor. You’re spot-on that it has to be a dogfight from him.

What about Topuria?

Chartier: I think it’s jiu jitsu. In my opinion, watching their fights, knowing their histories, I think Topuria has such an advantage when it comes to jiu jitsu in this fight. I don’t know if it’ll play a factor — whether they’ll go to the ground or not — but I would not be surprised if Topuria submits him. If jiu jitsu gets involved, Gaethje has yet to beat a guy in the UFC that has good BJJ and wrestling. He lost to both Khabib (Nurmagomedov) and Charles (Oliveira).

Kyte: Oh, he has really struggled on the ground.

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Chartier: We know his kryptonite is a guy that can out-wrestle you but also has good submissions, and this is a guy that can wrestle at a high level and has submissions. Yeah, Paddy Pimblett has good jiu jitsu, but he doesn’t have really good wrestling, and he didn’t really try to grapple. I think if jiu jitsu comes into play, there is a steep disadvantage for Gaethje.

Kyte:  No, it’s a great point and a great question. He can wrestle and he can defensively wrestle at times, but like you’re saying, when he’s in there with somebody that can work on the ground, he just doesn’t have — and I think it’s impart because of training, drilling, focus in camp — he doesn’t have the right movements. The choices he makes in getting back to his feet, trying to work up are just incorrect choices or rudimentary choices that guys at this level are going to exploit, and have. They’re mistakes you can be making if you want to be at this level, and if it goes to the ground and he makes those choices, Topuria will eat him alive.

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Chartier: I agree.

One Coaching Curiosity

Kyte: What’s are the curiosity points for you in this one?

Kyte: Yeah, they get too big, too quick or in the wrong ways…

Chartier: Right, so I’m interested to see how he stacks up. But yeah, that’s my curiosity is how does he stack up against a big ‘55er? A guy who could never make ’45.

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Kyte: For me, I think I know what the answer is, but I’m always going to be curious about it and that’s this is the last shot for Gaethje and can he rise to the occasion?

He was lobbying for a title fight, landed an interim fight when Topuria had to take time because of the family stuff, got a good matchup, gets the win and that’s great, but can you rise to the occasion here? He’s always talked about how much winning this title means to him, so can you do it? I would at least like to see him go out and make this competitive, stretch Topuria into a battle where, even if he loses, we say, “Topuria was the better guy, but damn Gaethje gave his all and made him work.” In the first two title fights, I don’t know what it was, but he wasn’t the guy we’ve seen in his best moments, even in defeat in some of those iconic scraps.