Coach Conversation | Alexandre Pantoja vs Kai Kara-France

Kyte: I’m excited for this one — Alexandre Pantoja and Kai Kara-France for the flyweight title.

What’s the best trait of each man?

Chartier: For Pantoja, obviously it’s his grappling. He doesn’t have bad striking, by any means, but he’s a world-class grappler. And with Kai Kara-France, it’s his striking.

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This is a classic “striking versus grappling” matchup, to make it simple. One guy has good hands and the other has good jiu jitsu.

Kyte: How difficult is it to coach somebody with big power? From my perspective — outside looking in, never been in there, never been in a corner — I can see how you fall in love with the power and just keep hunting for it; I’m thinking Joe Pyfer against Kelvin Gastelum very recently.

Is there a way to coach that out of somebody or how do you drive home that it needs to be more than looking for one?

Chartier: It’s always gonna rear its ugly head, but on fight night, it’s constantly reminding them to get touches — get touches, get touches, and the power will be there — and that’s when you see guys get knockouts. When people load up on punches, you’re generally not seeing it.

You look at Rob (Font) — he’s tied for second in terms of knockouts in the bantamweight division, and all of his knockouts are when he’s not trying to knock guys out and he’s just getting touches.

You just have to keep reminding them because (when you’re searching for that one big shot) is when you’re gonna be heavier on your feet, easier to take down, and your punches come out slower.

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So get your touches and let the natural power punches come out. You’re not going to take it out of the fighter, but you just keep reminding them that the power is gonna be there, so just get those touches and it’ll happen.

Kyte: That’s exactly how that opening round between Pyfer and Gastelum went: he was throwing, and sure he’s looking to land smoke, but he was throwing combinations, mixing stuff up a little and put him down a couple times, and then the rest of the way, Pyfer was just looking for that one shot, never found it, and it got closer than I think anyone would have anticipated after the first round.

Chartier: Yeah, didn’t end on a great note for him.

Path to Victory

Kyte: You already mentioned this is a classic striker versus grappler pairing, which more or less tells you the path to victory for each guy, right?

Chartier: So I think it’s easy to say wrestling is Pantoja’s path to victory, but I think he can win on the feet, too. For him, it’s lead the dance, get Kai moving backwards, and mix in the takedowns.

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On the other side, Kai has to take the center, work the body, not try for the knockout — just get your touches — and defend the takedowns.

It is ultimately a striker versus grappler matchup, but if you look at their first fight — (Note: they fought during Season 22 of The Ultimate Fighter, with Pantoja winning a decision) — Pantoja won that fight and there wasn’t that much grappling, so he can play in Kai’s sandbox.

Kai needs to pressure forward, look for small touches, hope they turn into big touches, and be ready to defend those takedowns.

Kyte: With a guy like Pantoja that we know can be drawn into a brawl every now and again, if you’re in the Kara-France corner, are there things you can do, a way to attack him early to see if you can get him to meet you in that kind of fight and eschew the grappling, even for a little?

Like we know “Parrumpa” (Marcos DaMatta) is going to tell Pantoja to be calm, not get into unnecessary exchanges, and to lean on his grappling, but can you shake him from them in some way?

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Chartier: You can play to the crowd a little bit, maybe throw some flashy stuff, some spinning stuff just to see if you can taunt him a little bit, but man, Pantoja has been on such a tear of late and so mentally tough that I don’t think he’ll go for that.

You can try, but it’s not something you can really depend on. You can use those little gamesmanship things, but I just feel like Pantoja is the champ, he’s on a roll, he’s got the one win over you already, and he’s got better grappling than you. He doesn’t have to prove anything — he already beat you, and did it mostly on the feet — so I don’t see him falling for that.

Kyte: You’ve just got to go out there, do you, land shots, and get the ball rolling forward.

X Factor

Kyte: Okay — what, if anything, is the X-factor in this fight?

Chartier: To me it’s that Kai doesn’t have much ring time in the last couple years. In the last two years, he’s got four minutes.

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He fought in June 2023 and lost a split decision, and then he fought for four minutes against (Steve) Erceg a year ago, so I just don’t know how he’s gonna look if he gets dragged beyond those first two rounds? How’s he gonna feel in the third and fourth round, if it goes that far?

We didn’t see any grappling in that last fight, so what’s he gonna look like if it gets there? I know he did well against (Askar) Askarov when it came to the back stuff, and he’s shown he’s competent there, but are his defenses up to Pantoja’s attacks? We don’t know.

Is this gonna be another case where it’s “Pantoja is just on another level” now?

Kyte: No matter who you’re training with, how good your squad is, he’s fought four minutes in the last two years and now he’s gotta face the champion, who has been cruising. It’s a big ask, and definitely something to keep an eye on, for sure.

So if you’re Pantoja, do you look to drag this out and test that? Try to drag him into the latter rounds?

Chartier: I don’t think that’s Pantoja’s style.

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Obviously, Parrumpa is gonna come up with a way to attack this fight, and I think he’s gonna get into his game plan right away, see how it goes from there. But if I’m Pantoja, I’m going in there trying to finish this fight, especially because you have the confidence of knowing you can go five rounds if needed.

I think you go out there looking to get it to the ground, get the back, get the choke, get the TKO, whatever it is, and then if you fail, you know you can drown him. I just don’t think he’s gonna look to be pretty — he’s just gonna come forward.

One Coaching Curiosity

Kyte: In terms of a curiosity point, what’s the thing you’re looking to see or the question you want answered?

Chartier: I am curious to see if Pantoja is aggressive with the wrestling or thinks “I can beat this kid on the feet,” which isn’t the easiest path to victory. I think he could do it, but I’m interested to see if he leans on the wrestling or decides he doesn’t need to use it that much.

If two minutes goes by and he hasn’t shot a takedown, I’ll be surprised.

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Kyte: Same, especially how well he’s used it the last few fights. It’s the clear avenue here, so he should be changing levels and getting on his hips early.

Chartier: If you’re not shooting takedowns, Kai’s gonna get time to get comfortable and settle in, so I’ll be interested to see how that goes.

Kyte: I don’t think it’s going to happen, but I’m just curious if this is maybe the one where Pantoja is a little less dialed in than in his recent outings.

He’s already beaten him a bunch of years ago and only gotten better since, it’s not the same hype and buzz around the matchup as there was with (Kai) Asakura, who everybody was saying was this super-dangerous threat, and is this maybe the one where he isn’t quite as locked in?

Chartier: Overlooks him a little bit.

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Kyte: Yeah, and not in a massive way, but maybe he’s just a little bit looking ahead, a little over-confident. He’s 80 percent of himself and it gets a little spicy?

Chartier: Yeah, that makes sense. It could be one of those things where Kai comes out and knocks him out in 30 seconds, too.

Kyte: For sure! It’s gonna be fun.