Coach Conversation | Joshua Van vs Tatsuro Taira

And then for Taira, it’s his grappling. His positional grappling is up there with some of the best. He’s good at getting to dominant positions and holding onto them. We’ve talked about guys in the past that can get to dominant positions, but can’t hold onto them, where Taira is the opposite — if he gets you in a bad position, he’s real sticky, and that’s an admirable quality in a grappler.

Kyte: When we went down to Houston, Zac (Pacleb) and I spent a morning with Van at the boxing gym and everything you said is spot-on. It’s the use of body work, changing levels; he’s got power in both hands, he’s quick, he’s got a good jab.

Like you said too — he’s not throwing these big, winging shots where you get exhausted; he’s just clean with it, crisp with it, and he’s so fast. The fundamentals he has as a 24-year-old are unreal, and he works on them, maintains them.

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And then with the confidence part, I was there throughout UFC 323 fight week, and every time I saw him, he would smile and say something to the effect of “I’m gonna be world champion this weekend.” It really is like he has no understanding that it doesn’t usually work this way — like you don’t reach the top this quickly — and I mean that as a positive.

I want the right amount of delusion in my fighters. You don’t so delusional that they’re not in touch with reality, but you want them to be “I don’t give a s*** — I’m gonna be world champion! I’ll beat Alex Pantoja.”

Kyte: Right!

Chartier: You want that level of delusion when these guys go in there because it’s a kind of innocence that hasn’t worn off you, and now you’ve got two guys in that same position, which doesn’t happen a ton.

When was the last time you saw two young guys like this, both fighting someone in the same position, almost mirroring each other? They’ve beaten some of the best in the division, and they’re fighting someone that has done the same.

Usually, when one of these guys gets up there, they’re fighting a Moreno or a Pantoja; it’s generally not two fighting each other, and that makes it really interesting.

Kyte: I couldn’t agree more. It’s gonna be fun.

Path to Victory

Kyte: Okay — path to victory; it feels pretty straightforward on the surface in terms of whoever dictates where it takes place has the better chance of getting their hand raised.

Chartier: Yeah. I think it starts out with who is controlling the cage — Van has to get in the middle, use his boxing, keep the center, and force some panic wrestling from Taira. But if Taira can claim the center, Van isn’t going to be able to back up as much, and Taira will have a chance to enter with body locks.

You saw when Van fought Rei Tsuruya, he was shooting from far, and it’s not gonna work; you have to get inside, get some body locks, and try to wear him down from there. Shooting blindly from far away isn’t going to work, but that starts with controlling the cage.

So primarily, the path for each of them is controlling the cage, dictating how and where the interactions are taking place, but when you dig in further than that, Van needs to keep the fight standing, and Taira needs to get to some dominant positions on the ground.

Chartier: The other thing is — and we talked about this a little already — but their career trajectories kind of mirror each other, so I’m interested to see who is more affected by the moment?

It’s easier to go in there as Joshua Van against Pantoja as the big underdog, nobody expects you to win, but now when you’re in there with expectations, and you’re fighting someone that isn’t a legend, never been a champion, and you’re defending, does that put a different kind of pressure on you?

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Taira is in the same position Van was just in of “Holy s*** — I’m fighting for the title; I can be champion!” But you’re fighting a guy that isn’t a legend yet — it’s just a guy that…

Kyte: It’s a guy that is still establishing himself.

Chartier: Right. On paper, you never imagine fighting a guy like this when you fight for the title — a guy that is defending the belt for the first time, and no one thought was going to be a champion at this point.

What I mean is let’s say Taira gets in on a body lock, takes Van down, and just dominates him in the first round; controls him, and Van has no answer for it.  How does Van come out the next round? Does he come out rattled and try to over-punch, looking to get it all back in one shot, and then gives up easier takedowns, or does he throw the round away and get back to the jab, back to the middle?

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I want to see how that plays out because if either of them can deal with some adversity, get in a bad spot, but come back and erase that, it shows me someone that can really have a good chance at having a sustained title reign. I really just want to see how each goes does when if they come out of thoroughly losing a round.

Kyte: How does it shake you? How do you react to things not going your way, especially early?

We keep touching on the age thing, but at their ages and levels of experience, they don’t have that many reps, that much practice dealing with adversity. Taira has lost once — it was a split decision, it was a competitive fight — and Van has lost once in the UFC; got knocked out on a reaching uppercut in a fight where he was running level, and we’ve seen what he’s done since.

I love this as a curiosity point; it’s such a good call.

For me, it’s how do these two deal with being in the spotlight? Van was a little in December, but he was the B-side of the co-main event, not the A-side, and while we’ve known these two were coming and going to be in the championship mix at some point, nobody expected them to be here this quickly.

Van’s first five-round fight was a title fight. Taira has had three main events. They’ve accelerated past everyone else in the division, and now we have to see how they deal with it all because now there are expectations and greater attention.

I’m really looking forward to this one. I think these two can be — I don’t think this is the only time we see these two face each other for gold.

Chartier: I agree. It’s going to be fun.